The bellicose Prime Minister of Israel continues to demand that the world take stronger actions against Iran to stop a nuclear weapons program that both Israeli and US intelligence admit does not exist. Recently, the US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey, came out publicly against participation with Israel in an attack on Iran. There are are already harsh sanctions as well as an embargo on Iran and it is surrounded by multiple US aircraft carriers, the Fifth Fleet and many tens of thousands of US soldiers. Apparently, this is not enough for Netanyahu who continually urges more aggressive actions be taken against Iran. It should be noted that Israel is believed to have several hundred nuclear weapons and is not a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty while Iran has no nuclear weapons and is a signatory to the treaty. These facts are never mentioned in the US media. Jeffrey Heller has the story for Reuters:
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu urged world powers on Sunday to set a “clear red line” for Tehran’s atomic activities and said they had failed to convince it of their resolve to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear arms.
Netanyahu’s remarks suggested a growing Israeli impatience with its main ally, the United States, and other countries that have been pressing him to give diplomacy and sanctions more time to work and hold off on any go-it-alone Israeli strike on Iran.
“I believe the truth must be stated: The international community is not placing a clear red line for Iran and Iran does not see international resolve to stop its nuclear programme,” Netanyahu told his cabinet.
“Unless Iran sees this clear red line and this clear resolve it will not stop moving forward with its nuclear programme, and Iran must not have nuclear weapons,” he said in broadcast remarks.
Although Netanyahu did not single out the United States or U.S. President Barack Obama in his criticism, Israeli officials have said they hope for stronger language from the president about possible U.S. military action.
Obama, who has had a frosty relationship with Netanyahu, has insisted he will not allow Iran to build atomic weapons and that all options are on the table.
On Saturday Tzachi Hanegbi, an influential former Israeli legislator and a Netanyahu confidant, said “the rhetoric of the U.S. president is too vague, very amorphous” and Iran was not taking Obama’s words seriously.
Everyone, including Iran, now admits they have a nuclear program. The only difference is that they claim it’s for peaceful purposes only. The reason Israel didn’t already bomb the reactors this time is because they built them underground under civilian residential areas so that any bombing would have massive civilian casualties for maximum propaganda value.
That is not in dispute, 29thtn. As a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty they did not give up their right to develop nuclear energy. There is IAEA oversight of their program, verifying that it is not to create weapons. Of course, they could withdraw from the treaty and kick their IAEA folks out of Iran but if they did everyone would know that they were working on a nuclear weapons program.
I would prefer a world without nuclear or hydrogen weapons, especially since they are mostly weapons to terrorise an enemy’s civilian population. However, I can understand why some folks in Iran would want nuclear weapons. Many of their neighbours, including Israel, Russia, Pakistan, India and the US (because of all the US forces in the region) have nuclear weapons. And having such weapons is the only effective deterrent to an invasion by the US, it would seem. Considering that many of their neighbours have either been invaded by the US or are militarily occupied by the US, I can understand why they would believe they needed a deterrent. Plus, Israel is always talking about the possibility of bombing them.
That said, Iran has not yet made the decision to build nuclear weapons. And both the US and Israel admit this. In fact, hawks in Israel (as well as their puppets in the US government – even Romney has repeated this line) now say that simply having the ability to make nuclear weapons is a red line that Iran can not be allowed to cross.
I view Israel, the US and Turkey as the real threats in the region – not Iran, which has not invaded anyone in centuries and does not occupy anyone else’s land (unlike Israel, the US and Turkey).
We both agree that the United States is a disaster in about every category, so I’m not saying this to defend American policy.
It’s just that I see these other groups as nearly as big a threats to Dixie as DC ever has been. I’m just not going with the enemy of my enemy is my friend thing here.
Iran has repeatedly stated that they will annihilate Israel and “the west” Maybe it’s internal saber rattling for internal political purposes, but when someone says they want to kill me, I tend to take it seriously.
Iran has not been peaceful for centuries. They fight proxy wars all the time through organizations like Hezbollah with which Iran used to help Syria destroy and occupy the westernized Christian country of Lebanon and turn it into a 3rd world hell hole.
They regularly say they will destroy us
Their leadership believes they need to bring about an Apocalypse to bring about the rise of the 12th Imam
They regularly fund international terrorists and have supported violent overthrow of actual peaceful countries
Most of the “insurgents” in Iraq and Afghanistan are Iranians
If they blow up the world, “the west,” or even just North America, Dixie is going to get blown up too
I think letting them have nukes makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine
Are you really scared of Iran? Seriously? Being worried about Iran saying they are going to “destroy us” is like being worried when a 5 year old kid threatens to beat you up.
Dixie will be overrun and controlled by “minorities” well before Iran is ever a serious threat to us.
North Korea got nukes, and the world is still here, despite that country being ruled by a psychopath for decades.
Remember, the only government to ever use nuclear weapons is the United States government.
N Korea is just slightly less insane in that they at least don’t want to bring about an apocalypse for religious purposes, but N Korea and Iran have been working together to get longer range missiles.
If they sneak something through our insanely open borders, or they launch a few medium range warheads off the coast, from say a few freighters, and detonate them in the atmosphere, the EMP alone will put us back in the stone age. We may be so much more advanced then them, but we are not advanced enough not to take nukes seriously.
I actually agree with all sides taken in this debate.
I believe our enemies are multiple.
Enemies within the culture, enemies moving in from other cultures, government, and Islamic fascists.
Fifty to one hundred years from now, could the small town resemble the larger, blighted cities (Such as Detroit?) I think that’s a possibility.
Could our world resemble the one that Dutch politician Geert Wilders lives in, one in which we have let in so many outsiders that our lives are literally threatened on a daily basis. It’s possible.
Could we be a much poorer, dumber version of our people today, living, truly, in a 1984 type of scenario? Absolutely, it’s possible.
If we are to construct a better world, we really need to A.) Take seriously what we want it to look like and B.) Begin speaking out, either on sights like this, or in public, or in whatever mode works for you.
The time for action is now.
Suit yourself, 29th. I will never fight for the empire in Iran. I’m not a subscriber to the “we gotta fight ‘em over there so they don’t come over here” doctrine.
The only reason Iran is an enemy of the West is because of the Western support for Israel. It’s not because they “hate our freedoms”.
Stop propping up Israel and close the borders. That would be a good first step in solving our problems with the Muslims.
Jared, I don’t want to hurt anyone, but I want them to leave me alone, and I don’t believe that’s going to happen. Also, this conflict against the west predates the United States by over 1,000 years, so I think we can lay the “blow back” and “support of Israel” arguments to rest.
Maybe if Spain and France had not supported Israel, Charles Martel would not have had to fight off an invasion in 732.
The only times in history they are not a threat to us is when we so overwhelmingly outmatched them in every conceivable way that they could not possibly harm us.
29thtn, most of the rebels in Iraq and Afghanistan are not Iranians. I’m afraid you are mis-informed. The Taliban, for example, is a nationalist movement of Pashtuns. They are anti-Iranian, if anything. The Iranian leadership and half of their country, after all, is Persian, not Pashtun. Iraq does have closer cooperation with Iran now (thanks to the US toppling of the Sunni government of Iraq) but those who cooperate too closely with Iran are frowned upon by the people of Iraq. The leading forces there are nationalist as well.
Also, Iran does not say it is going to destroy anyone. The President of Iran, a man with a big mouth but not much actual power (and none over the military) often says that one day Israel will cease to exist. He is talking about demographic change as well as his interpretation of prophecy. Some of his quotes are mis-interpreted (I think purposefully so by Israeli hawks and Neo-cons – which are pretty much the same thing) to make it sound like he wants war against Israel. He has said that if Israel attacks Iran that they will be destroyed. But that’s not an aggressive threat, that’s a defensive threat. People here say things like that about other countries all the time.
Even if Iran gets a nuke, we’re talking about an out-dated weapon (the US has a couple thousand hydrogen bombs that dwarf nuclear weapons) that still needs a rocket capable of long-distance travel to be even someone effective. The Iranians don’t have such a rocket. They also know that their neighbours have nukes as well – Israel has 200-300 of them and thanks to the Germans they have them on submarines now as well (that was stupid of the Germans to give them such weapons).
You mentioned Iran fighting proxy wars through Hezbollah. They are a defensive force. They defend Lebanon because the Lebanonese military is very weak and divided. When Israel invaded Lebanon a few years ago it was Hezbollah that drove them out. They are patriots who want to defend their country. Israel was the aggressor in that conflict. Also, your perception of Lebanon is inaccurate. It is less than 1/3 Christian. Probably about 1/4 or 1/5 at this point. The Christians live mostly in the mountains. Many of them left the country during the civil war. They are now scattered all over Africa, the Americas, Europe, Australia, etc. I met some of them in Spain. Lebanon was never majority Christian and it is less Christian by the day due to their very low birth rates and emigration. At any rate, I have nothing against the Christians there. Just trying to set the records straight.
I hear everything that is being said here, but honestly, only time will tell.
I still believe our biggest threat is continued lessening of freedoms here at home anad Islamic fascists “everywhere”.
The Israelis are the Israelis.
anad should be “and”
Michael, I believe you have a point about foreigners, particularly in Afghanistan, but there are an insane number of foreigners, particularly Iranians in the Iraq mess.
And no they don’t usually go out in international speeches and state they are going to destroy the west, but it’s what they say all the time amongst themselves. Have you ever looked up the crazy programming that gets put on Islamic tv over there, particularly for children. It’s full of references to killing infidels and ruling the world.
This one is tame compared to some I have seen where children are depicted decapitating infidels.
http://youtu.be/kkNE__TiMZo
You point out that the current President is crazy, but limited in true power, however, I must ask a question. If those with real power don’t agree with him, why do they let him say crazy things?
If you want to know the intentions of the Islamic radicals, you have no further than to look at 9/11. Is our current society really so ignorant of history that they don’t understand the significance of that date? September 11 1683 was the marking point of the final ascendency of the west over the Islamic radicals. During the massive siege of Vienna by the Islamists, it looked like the west was going to loose, when at the last moment, as the city had partially been breached, a massive force of cavalry arrived, and in the largest cavalry charge in world history, they hit the flank of the Islamic army. This incident is possibly a prime inspiration for some of the events in Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King.
After that point Islamic power declined dramatically through the 20th century. The date of September 11 signifies their intent to renew their destruction of the west after 318 years. I don’t understand why so many are so willing to ignore reality.
Furthermore, I don’t call any nuke “outdated” and I don’t see how any numbers the US has negates the threat here. I’m not one of those people who has so little understanding of nukes to think that any single nuke, or even a number of standard nukes are going to destroy the world. I believe a lot of nuke strikes could be survivable. However, are we really going to pretend that any nuke of any size is not an insane threat if it explodes? Nukes are not so out dated we can just dismiss them as inconveniences with little impact.
Furthermore, I am completely right about Lebanon. They actually have not had a census since the 1930s, and while I don’t have numbers in front of me, I think the Christian population (of all different groups) represented something like 80% of the population. There were a series of open door Muslim immigrations over the next several decades, though Christianity is believed to have remained the dominant religion until at lest sometime in the 1960s.
The “civil war” was an Islamic insurrection which was aided and abetted by Syria and Iran through Hezbollah. The war started when PLO militias tried to seize control of southern Lebanon. Ironically, the only real outside help the Lebanese government got was from Israel, who neutralized the PLO invasion, though Syria and Iran (via Hezbollah) would pretty much exert control of most of the country directly through occupation through 2005, when international pressure and popular revolts caused the revival of true Lebanese independence. Hezbollah has tried several times to reassert authority over Lebanon since, and they are in no way supported by the government of Lebanon, which attempted to finally expel the last of Iran’s goon squad in the 2008 war. Sadly they were not successful, and Iran is still screwing around with Lebanese internal politics.