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	<title>Comments on: Southern nationalism vs White nationalism</title>
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	<link>http://southernnationalist.com/blog/2012/08/21/southern-nationalism-vs-white-nationalism/</link>
	<description>Independence &#38; Identity!</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 01:25:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Virginian Secessionist</title>
		<link>http://southernnationalist.com/blog/2012/08/21/southern-nationalism-vs-white-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-22452</link>
		<dc:creator>Virginian Secessionist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southernnationalist.com/blog/?p=23690#comment-22452</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That sounds like about what I was thinking, I just didn&#039;t have the right words for it. I never intended to imply that Stand Watie was the same as Jefferson Davis. I think what you are getting as is a good solution. It does not pretend we are all the same the way that universalism does. What it does do is find a way for the different groups that call this land &quot;home&quot; and who wish to protect and preserve it to work together.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That sounds like about what I was thinking, I just didn&#8217;t have the right words for it. I never intended to imply that Stand Watie was the same as Jefferson Davis. I think what you are getting as is a good solution. It does not pretend we are all the same the way that universalism does. What it does do is find a way for the different groups that call this land &#8220;home&#8221; and who wish to protect and preserve it to work together.</p>
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		<title>By: The New Silence Dogood</title>
		<link>http://southernnationalist.com/blog/2012/08/21/southern-nationalism-vs-white-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-22451</link>
		<dc:creator>The New Silence Dogood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southernnationalist.com/blog/?p=23690#comment-22451</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[t.j.,

No disrespect on my end either.

To each his own...

I&#039;m still headin&#039; for &quot;higher ground&quot;, so to speak, cause&#039; the flood waters of muticulturalism keep a comin&#039;.....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>t.j.,</p>
<p>No disrespect on my end either.</p>
<p>To each his own&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still headin&#8217; for &#8220;higher ground&#8221;, so to speak, cause&#8217; the flood waters of muticulturalism keep a comin&#8217;&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://southernnationalist.com/blog/2012/08/21/southern-nationalism-vs-white-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-22450</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southernnationalist.com/blog/?p=23690#comment-22450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[VS, I do think there can be a positive solution to this problem that will benefit White Southerners and also those non-White groups which have historical ties to the South and identify with the culture of Dixie. The Confederacy&#039;s relationship with the 5 Indian nations of Oklahoma sets a good example in this regard, I believe. No one pretended that Stand Watie, for example, was the same as Jefferson Davis just because they were both born in the South. They were from different peoples with their own unique identity and nationhood. However, Waitie&#039;s support was welcomed and he was treated with respect - he was made a general in the CSA Army, for example. He was also the head of state of his people and that is where his first loyalty remained. I think a similar relationship with other racial/cultural groups who are aligned with us could be worked out. We see for example, in South Africa, that the Afrikaners have their own identity and are truly a nation of people. At the same time, they have a closer relationship with the Afrikaans-speaking coloureds (mixed-race people) than they do with the Zulus and other ethnic/cultural groups that are not related to them ethnically or culturally. This could be a model for us and one that if we look to the Old South and the various cultures of the Golden Circle, has a foundation in our history that we can build upon in the future.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VS, I do think there can be a positive solution to this problem that will benefit White Southerners and also those non-White groups which have historical ties to the South and identify with the culture of Dixie. The Confederacy&#8217;s relationship with the 5 Indian nations of Oklahoma sets a good example in this regard, I believe. No one pretended that Stand Watie, for example, was the same as Jefferson Davis just because they were both born in the South. They were from different peoples with their own unique identity and nationhood. However, Waitie&#8217;s support was welcomed and he was treated with respect &#8211; he was made a general in the CSA Army, for example. He was also the head of state of his people and that is where his first loyalty remained. I think a similar relationship with other racial/cultural groups who are aligned with us could be worked out. We see for example, in South Africa, that the Afrikaners have their own identity and are truly a nation of people. At the same time, they have a closer relationship with the Afrikaans-speaking coloureds (mixed-race people) than they do with the Zulus and other ethnic/cultural groups that are not related to them ethnically or culturally. This could be a model for us and one that if we look to the Old South and the various cultures of the Golden Circle, has a foundation in our history that we can build upon in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: tj.confederate</title>
		<link>http://southernnationalist.com/blog/2012/08/21/southern-nationalism-vs-white-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-22449</link>
		<dc:creator>tj.confederate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southernnationalist.com/blog/?p=23690#comment-22449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i couldnt agree more....or said any better]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i couldnt agree more&#8230;.or said any better</p>
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		<title>By: Virginian Secessionist</title>
		<link>http://southernnationalist.com/blog/2012/08/21/southern-nationalism-vs-white-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-22446</link>
		<dc:creator>Virginian Secessionist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 20:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southernnationalist.com/blog/?p=23690#comment-22446</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would agree with that, Michael. But I also feel that it does not have to be one extreme or the other. The problem with the USA&#039;s universalism is that they believe anyone from anywhere can just cross an imaginary border, pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth, and suddenly become &quot;American.&quot; I certainly reject that, and do not wish to see a free Dixie that says, &quot;Anyone and anyone who wants to be Southern just has to cross our border and pledge his loyalty to the Stars and Bars!&quot;

At the same time, TJ here makes a good point, that there were those of non-white descent who also helped make our Confederacy great (granted, their numbers weren&#039;t as large as the PC-Confederates like to pretend, but we cannot discount the reality of these people) and I think that is is possible to acknowledge that they, too, are Southern. Stand Watie, as mentioned before, is a prime example of a non-White who wore the Grey during the WSI, and H.K. Edgerton is a prime example in my eyes of a modern day non-white Southerner.

The South of the 1850s and 1860s reminds me in many ways of Lakedaimon, that great country of the Spartans. Like the South, Lakedaimon was a martial country, and one with multiple peoples living under its banner and calling it home, though it had been built by only one.
The Spartans themselves had built the country, it was their nation, and therefore as Spartiate Peers they held the position of highest honour and power, and only they could participate in government and hold the titles of &quot;Equal&quot; and &quot;Citizen.&quot; But they were not the only Lakedaimonians. 
Those called &quot;Gentleman Rankers&quot; and &quot;Perioikoi&quot; made up the middle strata of Lakedaimonian society. They were not Spartans, and they were not Citizens or Equals, but they were still freemen, and still Lakedaimonians, and when war came, they fought with pride and valour for their country.
And at the bottom of the rung were the Messenian Helots, slaves. And though not Spartan, they still were Lakedaimonian. Though they chafed under the yoke of slavery, and often sought freedom, still they knew their country was their country, and when Lakedaimon was threatened, they, too, fought to defend her.

Indeed, Patrick Cleburne likened the South&#039;s black slaves to the Helots, and said that if we armed them as the Spartans did and offered them freedom, they would fight. And though very few blacks did end up bearing arms for Dixie, many served in other ways. For though they desired freedom, they knew that the South was their country, and they would defend her against the invader in whatever way they could.

And while it is true that blacks, hispanics, and Amerindians are not white Southrons, I do not think this means that all of them are by definition excluded. But just as we would say that not all white men are or can be Southron, neither are all blacks, hispanics, or Amerindians Southerners, nor can they all become such.

It is my opinion that a man such as H.K. Edgerton is indeed a Southern man, and has a place in a free Southern country. And I will say again, I am not a universalist, nor a multiculturalist. I agree that we ought to be narrow in our definition of who is and can be a Southron. I just want to make sure we aren&#039;t too narrow. I hope I am making sense. If not, I shall try to clarify where it is I stand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree with that, Michael. But I also feel that it does not have to be one extreme or the other. The problem with the USA&#8217;s universalism is that they believe anyone from anywhere can just cross an imaginary border, pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth, and suddenly become &#8220;American.&#8221; I certainly reject that, and do not wish to see a free Dixie that says, &#8220;Anyone and anyone who wants to be Southern just has to cross our border and pledge his loyalty to the Stars and Bars!&#8221;</p>
<p>At the same time, TJ here makes a good point, that there were those of non-white descent who also helped make our Confederacy great (granted, their numbers weren&#8217;t as large as the PC-Confederates like to pretend, but we cannot discount the reality of these people) and I think that is is possible to acknowledge that they, too, are Southern. Stand Watie, as mentioned before, is a prime example of a non-White who wore the Grey during the WSI, and H.K. Edgerton is a prime example in my eyes of a modern day non-white Southerner.</p>
<p>The South of the 1850s and 1860s reminds me in many ways of Lakedaimon, that great country of the Spartans. Like the South, Lakedaimon was a martial country, and one with multiple peoples living under its banner and calling it home, though it had been built by only one.<br />
The Spartans themselves had built the country, it was their nation, and therefore as Spartiate Peers they held the position of highest honour and power, and only they could participate in government and hold the titles of &#8220;Equal&#8221; and &#8220;Citizen.&#8221; But they were not the only Lakedaimonians.<br />
Those called &#8220;Gentleman Rankers&#8221; and &#8220;Perioikoi&#8221; made up the middle strata of Lakedaimonian society. They were not Spartans, and they were not Citizens or Equals, but they were still freemen, and still Lakedaimonians, and when war came, they fought with pride and valour for their country.<br />
And at the bottom of the rung were the Messenian Helots, slaves. And though not Spartan, they still were Lakedaimonian. Though they chafed under the yoke of slavery, and often sought freedom, still they knew their country was their country, and when Lakedaimon was threatened, they, too, fought to defend her.</p>
<p>Indeed, Patrick Cleburne likened the South&#8217;s black slaves to the Helots, and said that if we armed them as the Spartans did and offered them freedom, they would fight. And though very few blacks did end up bearing arms for Dixie, many served in other ways. For though they desired freedom, they knew that the South was their country, and they would defend her against the invader in whatever way they could.</p>
<p>And while it is true that blacks, hispanics, and Amerindians are not white Southrons, I do not think this means that all of them are by definition excluded. But just as we would say that not all white men are or can be Southron, neither are all blacks, hispanics, or Amerindians Southerners, nor can they all become such.</p>
<p>It is my opinion that a man such as H.K. Edgerton is indeed a Southern man, and has a place in a free Southern country. And I will say again, I am not a universalist, nor a multiculturalist. I agree that we ought to be narrow in our definition of who is and can be a Southron. I just want to make sure we aren&#8217;t too narrow. I hope I am making sense. If not, I shall try to clarify where it is I stand.</p>
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		<title>By: tj.confederate</title>
		<link>http://southernnationalist.com/blog/2012/08/21/southern-nationalism-vs-white-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-22443</link>
		<dc:creator>tj.confederate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 20:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southernnationalist.com/blog/?p=23690#comment-22443</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[so then can someone tell me the diffrene between southern nationalist and white nationalist(micheal).im not taking the o.c from above cause i am a proud member of the scv and they are against the scv.they have a article against the scv called real sons of confederate veterans. thanks to all

again i mean no disrespect to anyone.....long live dixie]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so then can someone tell me the diffrene between southern nationalist and white nationalist(micheal).im not taking the o.c from above cause i am a proud member of the scv and they are against the scv.they have a article against the scv called real sons of confederate veterans. thanks to all</p>
<p>again i mean no disrespect to anyone&#8230;..long live dixie</p>
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		<title>By: The New Silence Dogood</title>
		<link>http://southernnationalist.com/blog/2012/08/21/southern-nationalism-vs-white-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-22440</link>
		<dc:creator>The New Silence Dogood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 19:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southernnationalist.com/blog/?p=23690#comment-22440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[White Southron,

That&#039;s why, in a few years, I&#039;m personally &quot;seceding&quot; from where I live now to a much more rural, &quot;white&quot;, conservative area.  It may not be perfect, but it&#039;ll beat where I live now all to heck.....

I hear exactly what you&#039;re saying.  Again, until someone comes up with a &quot;reasonable&quot; alternative, I&#039;m leaving &quot;for the hills&quot;, so to speak.....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>White Southron,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why, in a few years, I&#8217;m personally &#8220;seceding&#8221; from where I live now to a much more rural, &#8220;white&#8221;, conservative area.  It may not be perfect, but it&#8217;ll beat where I live now all to heck&#8230;..</p>
<p>I hear exactly what you&#8217;re saying.  Again, until someone comes up with a &#8220;reasonable&#8221; alternative, I&#8217;m leaving &#8220;for the hills&#8221;, so to speak&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: tj.confederate</title>
		<link>http://southernnationalist.com/blog/2012/08/21/southern-nationalism-vs-white-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-22427</link>
		<dc:creator>tj.confederate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 02:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southernnationalist.com/blog/?p=23690#comment-22427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[yes i believe you are right....after thinking about it.it would make things difficult.multiculturism i mean.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes i believe you are right&#8230;.after thinking about it.it would make things difficult.multiculturism i mean.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://southernnationalist.com/blog/2012/08/21/southern-nationalism-vs-white-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-22426</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 01:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southernnationalist.com/blog/?p=23690#comment-22426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TJ, I for one am not interested in Southern independence if it means we will re-create the universalist experiment of the USA.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TJ, I for one am not interested in Southern independence if it means we will re-create the universalist experiment of the USA.</p>
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		<title>By: tj.confederate</title>
		<link>http://southernnationalist.com/blog/2012/08/21/southern-nationalism-vs-white-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-22425</link>
		<dc:creator>tj.confederate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2013 00:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://southernnationalist.com/blog/?p=23690#comment-22425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In my personal opinon is that southeners are of all types,races,for example look at the confederate army there where white(majority)black,hispanic,and native american(stan watie).if your southern,act southern,have southern ideals,beliefs than your southern.

i know my typeing and spelling sux sry........long live dixie]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my personal opinon is that southeners are of all types,races,for example look at the confederate army there where white(majority)black,hispanic,and native american(stan watie).if your southern,act southern,have southern ideals,beliefs than your southern.</p>
<p>i know my typeing and spelling sux sry&#8230;&#8230;..long live dixie</p>
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